Curse

codemonkey · Jun 18, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I've noticed that it is nearly impossible to sell off many superior and major runes. People have been trying to give me major's for a minor no cost adjustment.

Why? Everyone says "too many penalties."

Case in point: A Major Swordmanship Rune at the rune trader: 187gp. A minor swordsmanship rune: 1,480gp.

How can that be? If the rune trader is based on supply/demand (which seems to make sense, and be how it works) the demand for swordsmanship is high... just not "too much" swordsmanship.

The game balance seems flawed, but I don't know what would be an acceptable penalty for the Major/Superior runes. All I know is that nobody wants them, and I am really pondering how I'm going to offload these superiors and major's I've found.

I guess I can always sell them to the rune trader for 25gp. I seriously can't even give them away (everyone says "you have any minors?").

CodeMonkey

Sereng Amaranth · Jun 18, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

no one wants to lose their health, but i have 2 majors and i do just fine....i know my abilities and skills though...i don't just Leeroy Jenkins it up

=HT=Ingram · Jun 18, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

The Key with superior runes and major runes is to use em when you need em. And to be choosy... U prob only even want to use 1 superior Rune Match against a superior Vigor to offset the penalty.

Another thing that is done often is to have 2 pieces of armor with runes on it, one with Minor one with Major or Superior. Then you can switch em out when you need the extra attrib against a boss or whatever. I use My gloves. I have a ranger so Normally I wear Drake Scale gloves with a Minor in beast mastery on it, but I have the same gloves on my belt ready to switch off with that have a Superior Rune of Beast Mastery on it. Just for when I need the extra Attributes for battle. If my pet is getting his butt kicked too easy, I switch over. I've seen many do this and found it works well. with almost every attrib when used this way...

But your right. its not often you see people using the major and superior except in PvP or unless they are maxed out with a Superior vigor rune and max level with other bonuses for +health.

codemonkey · Jun 19, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

no one wants to lose their health, but i have 2 majors and i do just fine....i know my abilities and skills though...i don't just Leeroy Jenkins it up

Yes, I have a major in both wild. surival and marksmanship, but I'm paying dearly in health. Which really means my bows need to be "Fortitude Health +20 or more" to really help me out.

Just seems that, in general, they are looked upon as "eh...its ok, rather not" type of item. Ya know?

CodeMonkey
PS: LEEEEROOOOOY, JEEENKENS!!! "At least I have chicken"

Magus · Jun 19, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

=HT=Ingram is right, it really depends on your build. Major and Superior runes are not intended to be "better" than their minor counterparts (with the exception of vigor, fury, and absorption.) Whether to use them or not all depends on your build. For example, my elementalist uses superior runes for that extra damage, and my necromancer uses superior death magic, as I'm not supposed to be taking damage anyways. Likewise, my ranger uses only minor runes because I feel that the health is more important. It's all really a matter of how much specialization you want.

I do agree that some superior runes seem really pointless though, but I don't think they're totally useless (There's almost always someone who uses that rune no matter how pointless it seems.) Tactics, for example is mainly a defensive attribute, so it seems counterproductive to use a superior rune to lose health over it, but I have a friend who actually uses superior tactics offensively to take advantage of certain shouts.

codemonkey · Jun 19, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

=HT=Ingram is right, it really depends on your build. Major and Superior runes are not intended to be "better" than their minor counterparts (with the exception of vigor, fury, and absorption.) Whether to use them or not all depends on your build. For example, my elementalist uses superior runes for that extra damage, and my necromancer uses superior death magic, as I'm not supposed to be taking damage anyways. Likewise, my ranger uses only minor runes because I feel that the health is more important. It's all really a matter of how much specialization you want.

I do agree that some superior runes seem really pointless though, but I don't think they're totally useless (There's almost always someone who uses that rune no matter how pointless it seems.) Tactics, for example is mainly a defensive attribute, so it seems counterproductive to use a superior rune to lose health over it, but I have a friend who actually uses superior tactics offensively to take advantage of certain shouts.

Understood. But overall, in general, the concept of the runes seems flawed in that:

a) They are supposed to be more rare, and more rare items should be more powerful. For example, the more rare version of a bow grip of fortitude (+28 energy instead of +5) is harder to get. The idea is that if its hard to get its more costly, and its more powerful. You pay more in cash for something better. However, paying more in life, in general, isn't looked at as 'better' because the risk vs. reward is off (high risk, losing lots o' life, and only getting +2 or +3 better).

b) The health penalty modivates you to only use 1 or 2, but it seems to me that removing that health penalty, or lowering it but not allowing more then two runes to stack is another way. If you did not allow a person to customize (and wear) more then two at once then you would bring up the value, remove more money from the system, and make characters feel 'better' about having them.

I understand that having a penalty kinda of "forces" you to pick the ones you want, but lets be honest, just because your an arial fighter doesn't mean you can wear them more consistently

Most fighters will walk right past the meat shields to attack healers, elementalists, and the like. Having -100hp due to two superiors is gonna really hurt ya bad in that case

CodeMonkey

Eclair · Jun 19, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Superiors are well worth it if you're a damage dealer. For example, any warrior should always use a superior of their weapon attribute. Also, majors are worthless because they're inferior to both minors and superiors. Any situation I could think of, I'd replace the major with either a minor or a superior rune =P

Zonzai · Jun 19, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I play an ele and I always run with a superior rune on for whatever element I am using at the time. For ES I just go with a minor rune.

For warriors I disagree entirely with Eclair. For a warrior the benefit of a high weapon skill diminishes greatly after 12 so you don't usually see knowledgable people running around with superior runes on their warriors.

StrongBow · Jun 19, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I use superior runes and i dont think it's unbalanced, contrary i think it's pretty much balanced since with a superior rune you can boost an attribute to lvl 16.

How is this done?

I'll give you an example how i used superior marksmanship for my ranger and boosted marksmanship up to 16 :

Use a "Superior Marksmanship Rune" "Hunters Mask" "Superior Vigor" "BowGrip of Fortitude 25+HP". Now if you read carefully the rune description it's smth similar to this "Superior Marksmanship" Improves Marksmanship, Health -75. Apply it on a piece of armour EG "Hunter's Mask" that boosts marksmanship with +1; since the superior rune will add +3 to your attribute if you have boosted your attribute up to 12 with a superior you will boost it up to 15 and +1 extra from "Hunter's Mask" it will go up to 16.

Ok, you have boosted your focus attribute to 16 but you notice that yout HP went down at 405 HP! Next add "Superior Vigor" that will increase +50 HP of your total HP and you will notice that the Health Bar went from 405 to 455, but yet we are short on 25 HP. Now, apply a Bowgrip of Fortitude +25 HP and you can get your health back up to 480 HP, if you are lucky to find a +30 HP "BowGrip" you may have an extra +5hp but so far i dont think +5 HP it's considered a super advantage.

Warriors may get few good extra HP stats from shields that will add +45HP (when enchanted/hexed) aswell as other professions with few good "Rares" with health bonus.

Thanks!

StrongBow

theclam · Jun 19, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40

For my Monk, I use Minors for Protection Prayers, Smiting Prayers, and Healing Prayers, because I switch between those depending on my build and I don't consistently use one of them. I use a Superior for Divine Favor, because no matter what build I have, I always use Divine Favor.

codemonkey · Jun 20, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

I use superior runes and i dont think it's unbalanced, contrary i think it's pretty much balanced since with a superior rune you can boost an attribute to lvl 16.

How is this done?

I'll give you an example how i used superior marksmanship for my ranger and boosted marksmanship up to 16 :

Use a "Superior Marksmanship Rune" "Hunters Mask" "Superior Vigor" "BowGrip of Fortitude 25+HP". Now if you read carefully the rune description it's smth similar to this "Superior Marksmanship" Improves Marksmanship, Health -75. Apply it on a piece of armour EG "Hunter's Mask" that boosts marksmanship with +1; since the superior rune will add +3 to your attribute if you have boosted your attribute up to 12 with a superior you will boost it up to 15 and +1 extra from "Hunter's Mask" it will go up to 16.

Ok, you have boosted your focus attribute to 16 but you notice that yout HP went down at 405 HP! Next add "Superior Vigor" that will increase +50 HP of your total HP and you will notice that the Health Bar went from 405 to 455, but yet we are short on 25 HP. Now, apply a Bowgrip of Fortitude +25 HP and you can get your health back up to 480 HP, if you are lucky to find a +30 HP "BowGrip" you may have an extra +5hp but so far i dont think +5 HP it's considered a super advantage.

Warriors may get few good extra HP stats from shields that will add +45HP (when enchanted/hexed) aswell as other professions with few good "Rares" with health bonus.

Thanks!

StrongBow

I am not discounting that with a half a billion dollars (or a lot of luck finding all the appropriate pieces) you cannot make a superior rune's penalties offset. However again, in general, they're not seeming to prove to be a useful item for most folks.

First issue, Superior Vigor's are rarest of rare, and I don't even think you can purchase one from the rune trader (always out of stock), and I don't have the 80K (as with most folks I'd wager) to buy that single item to offset that of a superior rune.

All examples I've read thus far seem to really call upon one common thing: Superior runes are only useful for your very most primary attribute.

Regardless of if you agree/disagree that a fighter should utilize one at "close quarter combat" that does not change the fact that most cases seem to be to stick the superior on your most powerful of attributes, and forget the rest.

So that narrows superior runes to being:

1. Superior Fire Rune.
2. Superior Vigor Rune (if you can find one!).
3. Superior Swordsmanship Rune.
4. Superior Marksmanship Rune.
5. Superior Blood -or Death Magic.
6. Superior Smithing -or- Protection Prayers.

I came to this conclusion because of the popularity of using the skills you receive earliest in the game. I've noticed that with elementalists most of the beginning "cool skills" are fire based, swords for fighters, marksmanship (bow attacks) for Rangers, blood/death magic spells for necro's, and protection prayers (or smithing for offensive) for monks.

Since the beginning skills usually require the attributes gained for the runes above (and that reflects in the demand for minor runes I've noticed) then these would be the "most likely candidates" for someone to pickup a superior for. Case in point: tactics is mainly a defensive attribute and lowering your hp by 75 is a bad 'defensive' decision more or less

Thanks,

CodeMonkey

thaumaturge · Jun 20, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

1. Superior vigor is 100k, I can't afford that so I can't help offset a superior rune
2. I haven't bought or aquired some good hp adding buffs
3. For things like axe mastery adding one point on top of 12 does maybe 1+ damage (sometimes none depending on the skill), the payout is not enough for me at this stage.

codemonkey · Jun 20, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaumaturge

1. Superior vigor is 100k, I can't afford that so I can't help offset a superior rune
2. I haven't bought or aquired some good hp adding buffs
3. For things like axe mastery adding one point on top of 12 does maybe 1+ damage (sometimes none depending on the skill), the payout is not enough for me at this stage.

Yes, I find that pushing a skill up to two more (giving I have a minor for the +1, and upping it to +3) isn't really "worthwhile" for many skills just for a boost of 2 points. Mainly because you lose 75hp, but if you do the math that's going to add up to maybe 2 more additional damage, or 5 seconds additional "time" on a skill. For the loss of 75hp....doesn't make me want to run out and buy one.

On top of which, when someone says that you have to pay 3K-90K for a superior then you start thinking "well, with the hp loss is it really worth paying that much for an extra two points...?"

CodeMonkey

shinseikaze · Jun 20, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

2 pts can mean an extra 10-15 dmg..........so yes i think its worth it if you can afford a sup vigor

codemonkey · Jun 20, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Can mean... but in many cases it may not. And if it was only 10-15 then I'd probably make due with a major rune for 5-10 extra damage and only take a 50hp loss. Split the benefits and negatives.

CodeMonkey